Subject: Cider Digest #1446, 26 April 2008 Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:19:52 -0600 (MDT) From: cider-request@talisman.com Cider Digest #1446 26 April 2008 Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Contents: Digest struggling along (Cider Digest Admin) Re: Pasteurizing temperatures (Bill) Cider Making Classes ("Drew Zimmerman") Re: Bottling keeved cider at high SG's (Claude Jolicoeur) Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com. Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests. When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them. Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Digest struggling along From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest Admin) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:16:31 -0600 (MDT) Severe spam problems have continued in our domain, and I've had to delay digests for that as well as some other problems. Notably also, I've had to shut off various addresses here again for brief periods. I hope we'll be back with little interruption now, but there are no guarantees. Main concern: If you try to submit an article to the digest and it gets tossed back at you as if the digest didn't exist, hang on and try again. I will attempt to limit shutdowns to a day or less, so if you submit an article and it bounces, wait 24 hr and try again. Same with admin requests. Yes, I do fully intend to keep the Cider Digest going! It's just that spam problems have increased dramatically this year, so even with good tools it gets harder, and that may cause brief interruptions. What YOU can do: OK you're not a spammer, BUT you might very well be one of the million-or-so people with an infected computer that's sending out spam without your knowledge--a spam bot, a zombie machine doing the bidding of a botnet controller. To avoid being an unwitting spam-helper: * Virus-check your computer frequently. Pay attention to all the usual warnings about not downloading stuff you can't verify, not opening active attachments, etc. If you do screw up, get help to check and clean your computer. * Pay attention to your computer's activity. If it's busy on the net and/or sending mail when you don't think it should be, disconnect from the net and check the machine. (Not all bot-creating viruses are readily detected.) * Consider using a system which is highly virus-resistant, such as a Mac or one of the various Linux or FreeBSD releases. [Tech talk: The problem here is forged sender back-scatter--botnets forge our addresses as senders. Clumsy MTAs don't verify recipients when they should, so they end up bouncing to the forged sender instead of the real one. And yes, I know about various tools. Challenge-response is no help on bounces; anyway it's rude and I won't deal with it. Yes I know about pattern-based filters and "bayesian" filters; I use both. But they can't get any traction on a typical bounce msg, and besides it's dangerous to train a bayesian filter to see bounces as spam when you really need the valid bounces.] yer severely peeved janitor ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Pasteurizing temperatures From: Bill Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 14:43:36 -0700 Con - I haven't heard of pasteurizing expressed as "PU's", but some figures I have relating to pasteurizing for my apple juice operation: Bulk heating to 180*F [82*C] for 30 seconds eliminates any contaminent organisms, with the juice cooled as fast as possible once in the bottle - - lower temperature for longer times does the job, but affect flavor more - HTST "flash pasteurizing" uses higher temps and much shorter times, down to 1 second The length of time required to attain the target temp has an effect on the process, which is likely where the PU formula applies, and a simple bottles-in-kettle on the home stove process will most likely be complete as soon as the desired temp is reached 143*F [62*C] for 25 minutes sounds excessive for cider. The fermentation process normally eliminates pathogenic bacteria, so the focus organism for cider would be yeast/molds, which react to lower temperatures - I believe 140*F [60*C] for 10 minutes or 160*F [70*C] for 20 seconds is usual for alcoholic products, again with as fast as practical cooling Bill ------------------------------ Subject: Cider Making Classes From: "Drew Zimmerman" Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 01:46:39 -0700 Peter Mitchell?s Principles and Practice of Cider Making course is again being offered in Mount Vernon, Washington this coming June 23-27. For information about the course and registration see HYPERLINK "http://learningcenters.wsu.edu/skagit/cider.html"http://learningcenters.wsu .edu/skagit/cider.html Registration deadline for the course is next Friday, April 18 ? sorry for the short notice. There is currently plenty of room in the class and unless we get a few more registered, we will have to cancel this session. So, if you?ve been thinking about taking this in-depth session on cider and perry, now?s the time. Drew Zimmerman ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Bottling keeved cider at high SG's From: Claude Jolicoeur Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:22:38 -0400 In Cider Digest #1445, 7 April 2008 >Subject: Bottling keeved cider at high SG's >From: stewart lucas > >Is there anyone out there who can give me definitive, empirical based >answers to to the question, 'what is the best way to bottle high >gravity, _keeved_ cider without inadvertently making a bomb?'. Is it >enough to allow the cider to stabilise, maybe at a gravity of over >1.020, and then bottle? I would not say this is definitive answer, but I can tell you about my 2006 keeved cider batch. It is a blend of 40% bittersweet apples (mainly Yarlington Mill and my own Bitter Banana), 30% McIntosh, and the rest split between Honeygold, Brown's Apple and Ashmead. Initial gravity was 1.066. By beginning of June 2007, the gravity was down to 1.028, and the rate of fermentation was about 1 degree of SG per 10 days. By mid August, it was at 1.024, and I bottled it at the end of October , at a S.G. of 1.022. I tested the first bottle today: S.G. is still 1.022 and the cider is very flat, but very good, with a nice bitterness that should get smoother with aging. Now, if I would have wanted to have this cider slightly petillant, I could have bottled it by mid August, and to have it really sparkling, I should have bottled it by April, when the gravity was around 1.035. This is very easy to say a posteriori, because now I know at which gravity the fermentation has stopped, but a year ago, when the gravity was 1.035 and the rate of fermentation was around 1 degree of SG per 10 days, it would have been pretty difficult to predict. I guess it is only by experience with your apples and your methods that you can accurately predict at which SG the fermentation will naturally stop. Claude Jolicoeur Quebec ------------------------------ End of Cider Digest #1446 *************************